Wednesday, December 11, 2013
Discuss one subject and theme from Candide. Can you connect the book to Oedipus? How? Use one example from each to make your connection. Answer in 100 words or more for your first answer. You also must respond to one other student's post in 25 words or more. In all, you will have two posts. Worth 50 points.
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A theme in Candide I noticed was that help from a wise person can lead to knowledge that can be helpful or the cause of great suffering. When Candide agrees with his always optimistic tutor, Pangloss, that all men are equal and says this to the colonel who wishes to marry Cunegonde, the colonel hits Candide with his sword and in return Candide murders him. Though without Pangloss writing the document stating the baron had no rights over his sister(Cunegonde), Candide never would have ended up with her. In Oedipus, Oedipus has help from a knowledgeable prophet, Tiresias. Without Tiresias Oedipus would had never found out who the murderer in Thebes was, but because of the knowledge that Tiresias brought to him, that Oedipus himself was the murderer, Oedipus' wife(and mother) commits suicide, Oedipus gauges his eyes out, and he exiles himself from Thebes. I believe these two examples go along with the theme that help from a wise person can lead to knowledge that can be helpful and cause suffering.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your theme, especially in the sense that knowledge can lead to two very different destinations, like you discussed. I also think that without the help of the characters of Pangloss and Tiresias, the story would have ended very differently.
DeleteOne subject could be the many horrors of Candide's journey, as well as what the people around him have suffered. The tragedies in Candide expose the cruelty of humanity, and the lack of sympathy it carries.
ReplyDeleteBoth Oedipus and Candide have a sort of naivete in them. For example, Candide's ignorance is shown by at first believing in Pangloss's theory that "everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds." Later he realizes this may not be true. Oedipus, however, shows his naivete while looking for the killer of the former king of Thebes. He is frantic and looking for answers, but does not see what is right in front of him; he himself being the murderer of Laius. Those are simply two of the many examples of how these two different stories are yet similar.
You're right! I never would have thought of Oedipus as being naive but he really was, I also think Oedipus had horrors on his journey (of his whole life) especially at the end if Oedipus the King.
DeleteOne subject would be forbidden love. Such as in the medieval times only certain people were allowed to love and marry certain other people. In both these stories they marry and love someone they weren't suppose to.
ReplyDeleteThe example for Eodipus is that he marries his mom, not knowing. When they find out though they know that it's not an ideal thing to do, and not an acceptable thing to do.
In Candide he loves Cunegonde, who is the barons daughter. He's kicked out, threatened, and almost killed for loving and wanting to marry Cunegonde. Still he insists though to love her, and he continues to search for her and try to get her back.
You're right; both of the main character's marriages are cloaked in shadows of doom. Seems like their marriages always link arms with death and go on dinner dates to chaos.
DeleteOne subject in Candide would be trust. In Candides case, he trusts too much. Oedipus also has trust as a subject, but he trusts too little.
ReplyDeleteExamples would be how in Oedipus he does not trust the blind prophet, Tiresias, about the fact that he does not want to know the truth and doesn’t trust the prophecy, causing him to investigate further and ultimately ending in his own down fall. In Candide, Candide trusts several fake friends including a pirate who swindles him out of his money for a ship ride to Paris, takes his sheep and leaves without him.
I would have to agree. I didn't even think of when Oedipus didn't trust Tiresias. Candide trusting too many people was definitely a big subject in the story as well. It was also a big part of the problem.
DeleteI would also have to agree with this. Candide getting robbed several times demonstrates his openness to except people at face value. Oedipus not trusting the prophet lead to his down fall.
DeleteA theme in Candide that I discovered was ignorance. Candide is ignorant when it comes to his theory on life, that everything is for the best. No matter what he goes through, he still believes in that theory. Oedipus is also like this.
ReplyDeleteHe believes that Tiresias is telling lies about everything. He doesn't believe the prophecy, yet his ignorance caused Tiresias to tell him the truth to begin with.
This is not Robinson; it is Colin
DeleteHaha why is your name Mrs. Robinson? Hahaha..
DeleteI agree! I thought both of them were ignorant at sometime or another. Maybe if they hadn't been so ignorant things could've turned out better for the both of them. Candides ignorance gets him robbed many times and Oedipus's ignorance leads to his down fall
DeleteOne theme in Candide that I found is the idea that love is a journey. Candide takes the journey in a literal meaning as opposed to the figurative meaning that we apply the journey of love to. An example is Candide's whole journey throughout the book. Throughout the book he is going through all these trials that, for the most part, have something to do with Cungonde.
ReplyDeleteThis theme could also be applied to Oedipus in the sense that Oedipus loves his kingdom so much that he goes on a journey to figure out who murdered the old king (his father) which results in him being banished.
I definitely agree! I think another good example from Oedipus is that he asks his brother to banish him because he no longer wants his daughters to see him in this state. So technically a journey away for love not to love.
DeleteSuicide is a subject shared both in Candide and Oedipus. In Candide, the Old Woman speaks about suicide and contemplates why people continue to live even when faced with poverty and suffering. The Old Woman is the Pope's daughter, yet she does not address the Christian mandate of suicide being a sin. Instead, she expresses her believe that humans cling to life with heroic endurance. In the plays by ancient philosopher Sophocles, many of the characters die by their own hand. Oedipus's wife, Jocasta, hangs herself in Oedipus the King.
ReplyDeleteThe theme that "ignorance is bliss" is clearly evident in both pieces of literature. In Candide, the main character lives in ignorance and naïtivity and is happier that way. In Oedipus the King, Jocasta feels she can tell Oedipus of the prophecy that her son would kill his father, and Oedipus can tell her about the similar prophecy given him by an oracle, but neither of them seen to feel compelled to remark on the coincidence.
Suicide is something I did not think of being in both pieces of literature. I am glad you pointed that out. It's definitely there, and very important in both works.
DeleteWhile reading both I didn't think about suicide being a theme. I had to really think about the stories to see the suicide part, now that you pointed it out I think it makes the book have more of a tragedy to them.
DeleteOne subject I discovered in both works is trust. Candide puts a major amount of trust in Pangloss' philosophy and what would be the expected behavior of others. A good example of that would be in the scene that Candide is abandoned by a man that was supposed to give him a trip to Constantinople. the same subject can be found in Oedipus. Oedipus trusts in his own false beliefs that he is not the killer of Laius to so much of a degree that it leads to his own destruction.
ReplyDeleteA theme that I found in both works is this: An overabundance of trust can lead to ignorance. Had Candide questioned Pangloss' philosophy and held reasonable doubt against mysterious acquaintances, his fate may have proved far more positive than it did. As for Oedipus, he also shows ignorance in his trust. If Oedipus had genuinely questioned himself and his past instead of trusting himself to not be the killer, he may have realized what he had done earlier on, which may have saved a lot of trouble from happening later on.
I completely agree with this. I noticed the major amount of trust Candide had but I never thought about Oedipus trusting his own false beliefs. I'm glad you pointed this out because I hadn't realized how important it is to Oedipus's character.
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ReplyDeleteA present subject and theme, I believe, for Candide is naivety. He goes on this huge journey not really understanding why he isn't aloud to marry Cunegonde, or what people really want from him and Pangloss.
ReplyDeleteI believe Oedipus shares this completely. He receives so many signs of the Kings death being connected to how he came into the city, and that his bride is actually his mother. (Which also makes me think he's just stupid) He ignores almost all of them until eventually, unlike Candide, his naivety leads to his demise. Even though Candide doesn't hurt as bad as Oedipus I believe they share the same naivety.
I agree with what you say. Candide and Oedipus do show some similar naivety. And Oedipus is stupid. He is ignorant he just didn't want to believe it.
DeleteIn Candide I feel there are many tragedies. Candide goes and finds wealth and love then its taken from him. There are many examples of this. One of them is when Candide obtains precious jewels and uses sheep to carry them. The sheep died and some got stolen by the ship captain that were suppose to take Candide for a ride.
ReplyDeleteOedipus also shows tragedy by getting cast away. Then ending up coming back and killing his dad and marrying his own mother. He didn't want to believe that it could be him that did it. I find that tragic.
I agree with you, both stories are very tragic. It's as if nothing good ever happens to the main characters in the two stories. And when good things do happen something always comes along a wrecks it.
DeleteA subject that I found interesting is mortality. In each instance both Candide and Oedipus demonstrates mortality of man. Candide continually shows us death and resurrections. Example of that is when the Bulgarians attacked the castle and killed the Baron. He resurrected at a Jesuit camp and becomes the colonel of them. Oedipus was orphaned as a child for death and his ankles pinned together. He was saved by a shepherd and taken to a rural family of Corinth who raised him as a rural son. Later in his life he was exiled from Thebes to a life of wondering. He ended up killing his father at a crossroads and marrying his mother.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your subject because we never notice that really they are both mortals and they both make mistakes and face death time and time again.
DeleteI agree, I think that morality played a important role in each story. In Candide the fact that Pangloss and all the others who weren't actually dead Changed the outcome of the story.Just like you said in Oedipus, when he was saved by the shepard that set a tone for the story
DeleteTragic love is a subject shared in Oedipus and Candide. In Oedipus's story he marries his mom without knowing it. They have a long consummated marriage and have some kids before they find out that are mother and son, when they find out Oedipus stabs out his eyes and his mother commits suicide for what they have done. Candide on the other hand is and has always been in love with Cunegonde. But he isn't ranked high enough to marry her. He tries to find her for years and when he does find her it's only to have her taken away again. Their love has always been tragic and forbidden and that's why I think that when their love starts to grow something always tears them apart.
ReplyDeleteI think a theme that both stories share is tragedy. Oedipus sets out on a journey because he does not want the prophecy of him killing his father and him marrying his mother to come true, so he sets out on a journey that causes the prophecy to come true without him realizing it to later on and then everything is chaos.Candide experiences many misfortunes. He trusts too many of the wrong people and they end stealing from him. He goes through so many hardships to find his dear Cunegonde when their love is forbidden.
I agree that forbidden love plays a huge role in both stories. Without the love of their women they are hopeless and remorseful. They realize they can have all the riches in the world, but without love thats all that they are. To add to the plot that the love is forbidden shows how desperate the two main characters are for it and creates a way for me as a reader to relate to their situation through my own experiences.
DeleteA subject that stuck out to me in both Oedipus and Candide was fate. In Oedipus, Sophocles shows that no matter how hard the characters try they will never be able to change their fate. The profit told Jocasta and King Laius that their son would kill his father and sleep with his mother. No matter how hard they tried to change this fate, they couldn't. Candide on the other hand wavered back and forth between fate and free will throughout the story. Pangloss sways him to believe in fate; everything happens for a reason. However, Candide didn't have this frame of mind throughout the whole story. He began to see that things didn't always happen the way they should. He realized after losing Cunegonde for the second time that if he wanted her back he would have to do something about it and not leave it up to fate to bring them together.
ReplyDeleteI can see where you are coming from with the fate theme. It almost seemed their attempts to change their future turned back on them, sealing their fate even more.
DeleteAn over lying theme used in Candide is the concept of fate. The ideology that Candide believed in so strongly, "everything happens for a greater good", is the basic view for the notion of fate. Throughout Candide his fate is determine though by his choices. For example, Candide chose to leave El Dorado and pursue Cunegonde; therefore it was the fate he made for himself that was fulfilled when he found her again. In contrast to the story of Oedipus that shares the theme of fate throughout the book, but in a different light. Running from the fate of oracles throughout the entire story he finds himself at a cross roads with a stranger and kills the man. In that case there was divine planning to fulfill Oedipus's fate. Oedipus did not choose to kill his father the king, he chose to kill a stranger in his way. Candide's fate was always determined by the choses he knowingly made; Oedipus's fate was determined before he was a baby by divine forces. Each characters fate was controlled by different sources, but it is easy to see that fate of any kind is inescapable.
ReplyDeleteIn the story Candide one subject that grabs my attention are the tragedies. Candide goes through many hardtimes throughout the book. In one situation Candide gets robbed by sailors after he gains riches in El Dorado. In another situation, Candide gets exiled and whipped in his home after kissing Cunegonde. In the story Oedipus there are also many tragedies. For example, Oedipus finds out that he killed his father and married his mother; so Oedipus stabs his eyes out and exiles himself from Thebes. Some stories have many tragedies, in theses two books one suffers from more pride and the other suffers from fate.
DeleteA theme that I noticed has been things are not what they appear to be at a first glance. Candide showed that with all the people that had been "dead" and with the people that he trusted who turned to abandon him in the end. When Candide met the old woman he could not tell what she went through, he had to ask her about her story and found the old woman to be another person. Oedipus did this as well, he refused the idea of killing his father and taking his mothers hand in marriage. Oedipus had to ask around to figure out the truth about who he truly was because of the idea of his "parents" was not what he believed them to be at a glance of his life.
ReplyDeleteCandide and Oedipus share the sense of pride, and how its presence can be troublesome. In Candide, Pangloss is prideful about his belief in that everything that happens is for the best. Even after everything that happened to him, he seemed almost stubborn to waver from his belief. Pride gets in the way of him realizing life doesn't always work in his favor. The same goes with Oedipus. His prideful nature plays a more devastating role in his life. It drives him to madness and exile from his own country. Pride, in both stories, shapes the journey of each plot, having a big influence on the outcome.
ReplyDeleteA common theme in both Candide and Oedipus is their free will. Both of their free willed nature get them both in some big trouble. Both of them ignored their so called "mentors" and did their own thing which did not have positive results for the either of them. This free willed nature says a lot about our society. No one wants to follow what they are told they all want to be rebellious and do their own thing. Oedipus only wants to flee from his fate but eventually it does catch up to him. And similar happened to Candide he tries to get away from his teachings but it always comes back to haunt him.
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